Thank you for getting back to me. That is very helpful indeed. I have another question for you.
In 1Timothy 2:11-12 We read, Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
In many Churches, you will find women Pasters/Elders. What is your understanding on this topic? Kind regards.
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Hi @vincent,
It’s a great question, and one that’s important because we want to honor God’s word.
My personal experience with this passage is that I generally understand it in light of what I already believe about women and men.
If it’s obvious to me that men are to be in charge and women are to be underneath their authority, then this passage is 100% clear support for that position. Every word makes it incontrovertible… just read it! It’s indisputably a universal prohibition against women teaching or having authority, on the authority of Paul, who cites Genesis in support. The order of Creation and the realities of the Fall are fundamental Biblical issues.
When I look at the verse from this point of view, it hurts to think anyone could read such a clearly stated prohibition and not think it means what it says. It is tempting to think that anyone who doesn’t think this way is denying the Scriptures and in rebellion against God’s order.
However, if it is obvious to me that men and women are co-regents over Creation, equal before God and each other, and both bringing co-equal value, gifts, and purpose, then I have a different take.
Again, if it is obvious to me that Jesus invited both women and men to be his disciples, to learn from him, and to announce his message (whether the disciples going out two by two or his female disciples receiving the honor of proclaiming the resurrection), then that affects how I understand women and men.
Further, if it is obvious to me that in Christ, there is neither male nor female, slave nor free, Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:28), then the center of my interpretive focus is about what it means that both men and women are baptized into Christ, both men and women are filled with the Holy Spirit, and both men and women are to share their spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12). If there’s only one Spirit, and the Spirit lives in women and men, then how can we say that some parts of the body are weaker, less honorable, and not needed?
All that to say, for me, my starting point has often been the same as my ending point when I read these verses.
I think Dr. Craig Keener provides a very helpful explanation of why we all read the Bible in light of its cultural particularities, and if we refuse to do so, we end up with absurd if not impossible commands:
We can get further into the details, but to summarize, I see Paul addressing a particular situation where a certain number of men were praying in a disruptive way, and needed to be reminded of how prayer humbles us and enables us to forgive and love each other.
Further, a certain number of women were trying to teach before they had done the requisite learning, and the way they were inserting themselves into the discussion was disrespectful of their husbands. They needed to be reminded to become well-informed about the truth so they could participate in the church in a way that honored their marriages and the gospel.
For me, here’s the key question: Did God made women and men as co-equal image bearers, disciples, and Spirit-filled witnesses to the gospel?
Or, did God intend for men to have a more prominent role than women?
What do you think?
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Thank you for your email,
I am very grateful for your answer, but I must confess I am a little confused. I Think it is best if I answer your e-mail in two parts. First, I will answer your e-mail to me, and second, I will address the reading material that you recommended by Dr. Craig Keener.
First, having read your email, I am still no wiser as to what it is you believe in regard to whether a woman can hold the position of a Pastor/Elder in the Church of God, and have authority over a man/men. Your e-mail is very intellectual, but non-committal, in other words you use a lot of fancy euphemisms and effectively say nothing, you do not commit to one side or the other.
At the end of your e-mail, you very kindly invite me to share what I think.
So I am going to share with you not what I think, but what I believe.
I believe that the Bible is God’s true and perfect word and inherent in every way.
I believe that the Bible was written by holy men chosen by God for this specific purpose.
I believe that these holy men chosen by God had no input whatsoever in the writing of God’s word the Bible, other than the fact that their hand held the instrument that did the writing.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2Peter 1:19-21
I believe that the Bible should and must be understood literally, it is only from a literal understanding does the Bible make perfect sense from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. If we read and understand the Bible from a literal point of view, then, and only then, the Bible in its entirety fits together seamlessly, and makes perfect sense, and gives the reader who is seeking to understand God’s Word a perfect understanding. I believe that all the commandments of God must be obeyed today, just as they were to be obeyed from the beginning. I believe that there is,
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6
I believe that all men and women were created equal from the perspective, that everyone has the same civil and legal rights, and are equal in value.
I believe that all men and women are not equal from the prospective, that men and women were created biologically different. Taking into account that there are always a few exceptions to the rule. Men are physically bigger and physically stronger than women. I believe men and women were created to fulfil different roles and to fulfil different duties. I believe that the functions and duties of men and women are of equal importance and equal value. This is the order of creation as laid out in Scripture by God Almighty Himself, and if accepted and followed correctly, it gives both men and women equal status in the eyes of God, and should give men and women equal status in the eyes of each other.
It is my understanding that there are three subjects within Christianity today which have caused great divisions among those professing to be believers. I am only going to address each one briefly.
1. Speaking in tongues. 2. Head coverings. 3. Women in leadership roles, pastors/Elders.
Speaking in tongues: The first thing to note is that the modern-day concept of speaking in tongues is not a biblical one. There are only five passages of Scripture that address speaking in tongues, and all five of these passages make it clear that it is earthly languages that is been spoken of, and not some angelic language that even the person who is speaking cannot understand. I believe that the modern-day concept of speaking in tongues is not of God.
Head coverings: The issue of whether men should have their heads uncovered and women should have their heads covered, when praying and prophesying, has become one of the most controversial issues in the Christian Church in the last two hundred years. The reason that so many get it wrong and miss the simple point of this passage, is because they do not approach this passage of Scripture with the mind set of making their lives fit the Bible, but rather to make the Bible fit their lives. The first mistake that is made is in assuming that Paul wrote this passage, and the second mistake is in assuming that the warnings in Scripture, not to change even one word of God’s Holy and sacred book the Bible do not apply to 1 Corinthians eleven. The Lord Jesus Christ {Being God in human form} spoke these words. Matthew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. Now I know that there are those out there who are already taking the stand that I am wrong, because 1 Corinthians eleven is not part of the law, but I would argue that the entirety of God’s Holy and perfect word is God’s law. In 1Corinthians 14:37, God writes through the Apostle paul, If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. Paul in fact did not write this passage or indeed any other passage of Scripture. God wrote all Scripture, Paul merely held the instrument that was used for writing, and the Holy Spirit {Being God} wrote the Bible using Paul as the means to do so. Paul did not write to the Corinthians, God did. If God meant for the message of 1 Corinthians eleven to cease, don’t you think He would have said so. I challenge anyone to prove from the Holy Scriptures that this is the case.
I believe that a man should have his head uncovered and a woman should have her head covered, when praying or prophesying. I believe this because that is what God teaches us we should do in 1Corinthians chapter eleven.
Women in leadership roles, pastors/Elders. I believe that the Scriptures teach very clearly that a woman cannot hold a position of authority in the Church of God. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 1Corinthians 14:34-38.
Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 1Timothy 2:11-12
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. 1Corinthians 14:34-38.
These passages of Scripture are very clear and in no way difficult to understand. God’s command is that a woman cannot teach the congregation nor hold a position of Authority over a man in any capacity within the Church of God. A woman is not allowed to hold the office or position of an Elder, Bishop, or Pastor. It is important at this point to understand that, Elder, Bishop, or Pastor are all just three different words to describe the same office of leadership. You will also notice that those who are called to be Bishops/Elders/Pastors are always men. Nowhere in God’s word will you find a woman in a position of leadership or authority in the Church. When we look at the pattern of spiritual leadership that God has ordained in Scripture, it is always one of men. Priests were always men, the apostles were all men and those who hold the office or position of Elder, Bishop, or Pastor today, are all to be men, and men only. This is beyond doubt or dispute, what the Word of God teaches. The role or office of spiritual leadership in the Church of God has never been given to a woman, nowhere in Scripture will you find any such thing. Women who function in the role of Elder, Bishop, or Pastor in the Church are in open rebellion against God, and against what God teaches in His Holy Word the Bible. This simply means that they are knowingly, willingly and defiantly sinning against God, and if they continue to do so unrepentantly, then they will suffer eternal damnation.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these things. Vincent Long.
The second part of this email will follow shortly.