By their fruits

Hello everyone, I hope you are all blessed and well. I am finding people nowdays are selfish, cold, vain etc etc even christians. I think I must be a very good observer bc I am noticing so much wrongful behaviour and am not sure why everyone isn’t complaining already. At this rate I am so not sure the human race is even worth saving.

Worldly people are well worldly - chasing the perfect rich instagram partner or friend or employee etc (yawns)

Christians - I thought we were suppose to lift each other up? Not fight for power and status in the church. So many people talk it and don’t walk it. To a point we all have faults but within the church aren’t we suppose to be extra diligent aiming to be kinder than those of the world. Also, the ‘christians’ that tiktok in those low cut tops etc, those ‘chrisitans’ that only ask for money, those ‘christians’ that don’t include you. blah blah

Lord Jesus save us already (again) please.

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Hello @jenn, Welcome to the UP community! This kind of question usually doesn’t arise in a vacuum, and probably comes out of an unmet longing to experience a loving Christian community. If you’ve been hurt by hypocrisy in the Church, I know its not easy to bear that pain alone and I’m truly sorry. I pray the Lord sends loving genuine Christians your way.

Jesus too is grieved by religious hypocrisy as described in Matt 23. Apostle Paul addresses it in 2 Corinthians 10-12. Hypocrisy has always existed in the Church. But I hope we can also talk about what it is, and what it isn’t, because that distinction matters. Sometimes people confuse hypocrisy with immaturity, but the distinction is important so that we respond appropriately.

Hypocrisy is when someone knowingly pretends, appears righteous while deliberately hiding sin. An appropriate response is to expose it for what it is based on Matt 23.

Spiritual immaturity is different. It’s when someone genuinely believes in Jesus but is still growing. Their hearts may be sincere, but they’re still inconsistent and struggling to bear fruit. Perhaps they didnt have the right mentors or right teaching. An appropriate response here needs to be that of loving encouragement

Both kinds can be hurtful to others, but one is a heart issue of deception, and the other is a growth issue.

I have thought about why people may not want to discuss hypocrisy and its probably to preserve unity in the church. As believers we are all members of the same family of faith and we may want to talk about such issues with care. Many don’t always know how to go about it. Some are afraid of being considered judgmental. Others are hurting themselves and don’t feel strong enough to take a stand. Some may want to support the hurting silently in prayer. People have different ways of looking at things and that too may create barriers. Some may not feel called to step in this way. I am not excusing the silence on hypocrisy but just trying to share possible other reasons.

What does the Bible teach on how to respond to hypocrisy? My response is not a thorough reply but hopefully provides a start.

Jesus didn’t ignore hypocrisy but He exposed it (Matthew 23). About the Pharisees, He says do as they say, not as they do. He tells them what their end will be if they continue on that path. But He also laments their hypocrisy. God did not leave them without hope though. He sent them prophets too. His rebuke too was in love.

As Christians, we may not be able to call it out like Jesus, without first considering our own blind spots and we have to offer correction in gentleness (Matthew 7:5, Gal 6:1). We are also called to forgive as Christ has forgiven us. We overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21). We may not always see fruit right away even with a biblical response but things may change slowly.

If we have been hurt, its so tempting to become cynical. But then, we only prevent ourselves from being ministered by the Lord. Jesus cares about our hurt as He himself was hurt by religious hypocrisy and we can take our hurt to Him.

Finally, I would suggest, having friendship with one or two who truly love Jesus. It takes love to heal from the hurt but it may not always be easy to find a good church close by. If its any encouragement, we are all works in progress and God is not finished with any of us.

What we see in imperfect Christians is not who Christ is. May your love for Christ stay strong in the midst of sorting through all the difficult questions.

I welcome wisdom of others in the community as well on how to think about such issues.

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Hi Jenn! I echo @lakshmi in saying how sorry I am that you have experienced the kind of hypocrisy and disappointment that you are describing and I am praying that as you are wrestling through this, Christ continues to grow these desires for gentleness, righteousness, and authenticity within you.

Your post made me recall what the preacher in Ecclesiastes struggled with throughout the book, saying that "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity” (Ecclesiastes 1:2). It feels like that’s exactly what you’re describing — people chasing status, appearances, or influence, even in the church. The writer of Ecclesiastes looked at the world really honestly, just like you are now, and saw how empty it can be when we live only for ourselves.

In the end, Ecclesiastes also reminds us what is most important to remember, “Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man” (Ecclesiastes 12:13). We can’t control the choices others make, but we can keep our own hearts focused on Christ, showing kindness towards coldness and exhibiting humility where there’s pride.

Your hard observations aren’t wasted — it may be that God is using them to remind us all that the enduing source of goodness is Him.

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It was great to read your response and very true. God is continually working in all of us - continually - continually. I am a work in progress and always will be. So I am equally as flawed.

Anyway, for context, I am at a rural country church of about 50 people and just joined looking for a place to belong. On my first attendance, i mentioned to the pastor i was interested in helping in any way with the music team. he suggested i speak with the lady who fronted it.

I introduced myself to her and explained i was keen to contribute “in the background” perhaps on my instrument (hang drum) or if she really really needed I could help with back up singing. I was overjoyed when she said they were pretty casual and took my number and said she would call and let me know if they were having music practice that week.

She never called.

The next week I asked her if she’d been busy hence didn’t call to let me know practice time. She fobbed me off. I realised from her response (and the no call) it actually was not a possibility at all.

I had carried my small instrument in just in case she was going to need me so after the service she came over reluctantly and was like ok show me your instrument - I told her not to worry and I hadn’t realised if there was a protocol / process to follow and I had only been wanting to belong.

She replied “just coming along to church every week is belonging” in an almost angry tone.

I apologised for any confusion and she went one way and i the other.

Now it felt awful but the biggest issue is - her defence gave me a strong indication that she is up there singing to lord it over others and not for real worship to god - for her own esteem

and the bible tells us to lift each other up - not power grab.

so now i find it difficult to sing bc she is smack centre stage leading the songs and it feels deceitful.

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Hi @jenn, I hear the pain, and it makes sense. That feeling of rejection is a gut punch, and it’s hard to sing about the radical love of God with someone who has dismissed you.

I don’t know all the dynamics of the situation, and that’s one of the limitations of an online community. I want to validate your experience and acknowledge that being hurt at church makes it hard to connect with God at church.

At the same time, I don’t know if possibly taking the time to get to know people, build relationships, establish trust, and demonstrate a loving care for other members will provide the foundation for being invited to lead worship? Possibly, being part of the worship team in a small church is connected to being known as someone who demonstrates Christlikeness and is beloved in the community, and therefore people trust them to lead them in worship?

To reiterate, I don’t know the dynamics of this church, and possibly, the worship leader is lording it over others, doing it for her own esteem, deceitful, and controlling about who gets to be on the team. In that case, that’s quite a difficult situation.

My bottom line… I’m joining you in the grief of the painful dynamics of church community.

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Hi @jenn,

Thank you for sharing the context behind your question. It’s deeply discouraging when a Christian leader dismisses someone’s desire to serve, especially without explanation. A little curiosity about your background, a willingness to share church protocols, or simply helping you find other ways to get involved would have gone a long way in honoring your desire to belong in a Christian community.

From my own experience, I’ve come to see that while the desire to serve is a godly one, it’s sometimes wise to wait, for your own protection. The worship leader’s response raises a red flag. If it was a one-off moment, perhaps it’s best to let it go. But if her reaction reflects a pattern or the broader leadership culture, then your deeper involvement might have led to greater hurt down the road. So I think, it could even be God’s protection and guidance at work, something to bring before Him in prayer.

It might be helpful to take time to explore the church’s teachings, culture, and leadership before committing further. Serving is a beautiful way to bond and belong, but unmet expectations can leave us wounded. A healthier starting point might be: “I want to serve because I love God.” And if that leads to growth, gratitude, and belonging, that is wonderful! If not, you can still find peace knowing you’ve obeyed Him.

Now, regarding her comment that “just coming along to church every week is belonging”, there is some biblical truth there. Ephesians 4: 1-5 reminds us that we’re already united in Christ as one body through one faith. But that truth is meant to be the starting point, not the finish line. As believers, we’re called to make every effort to maintain that unity, to actively build a culture for belonging. Perhaps she was trying to say that we don’t need a role to belong, but her tone, as you described it, suggests she expected you to know that and was frustrated thinking you didn’t. Of course, that’s just a guess based on what you’ve shared.

Whatever the case, I would encourage you to take this to the Lord and ask for His wisdom. If you plan to remain in that church and work closely with her, a gentle, honest conversation might be important in grace and truth. I share this not as a counselor, but as a Christian friend who cares.

May the Lord give you wisdom as you navigate these conversations. The church is made up of imperfect people, ourselves included, but we are all called to humility, reflection, and growth. While the church is not perfect, God is still using the Church. As Paul warned Timothy, in the last days many hearts will grow cold (2 Tim 3: 2-6), but let’s stir one another up to keep trusting the Lord.

God bless.

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Thank you for your encouraging answer and guidance. I really appreciate God minded people and am extremely grateful :slight_smile: Lookinng forward to getting to know people better here.

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Yes completely right, have let it go i think is wisest and blurred into the background. I would have been happy to even just put out chairs lol. All good though. I guess God doesn’t want me positioned in that way and if that’s the case that’s fine. I would like to feel I had worth to offer but it seems all avenues are blocked - and that’s ok just not sure what to do with myself lol - perhaps God wants me to do nothing/relax. :slight_smile:

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I am so sorry again @jenn for your experience as a newcomer to church. It really hurts when you are so willing to learn and give and not being given a space to serve. You are valuable. I am praying for God’s comfort for you and that He provides you new opportunities to serve.

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Hi @jenn, it’s discouraging for sure! I believe God values your life as you are, whether or not you are in a place of active service, and I believe that God has a purposeful plan for you to contribute to the lives of others. I’m praying for you!

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Its all good - bc maybe it led me here, bc maybe Gods plan is perfect and im so lucky to meet so many wise, kind Christians.

And also grow in discipline.

Thankyou for your insight and application to God’s word and calling.

Thankyou for being a brilliant example to me and anyone new here.

The support is real and refreshing to meet great people. How exciting :blush::blush::pray:t2::pray:t2:

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Hi @jenn, that’s so wonderful that you think that way about this community. After having some difficult church experiences myself, I had to learn to look beyond my limited experience and remember in times of discouragement that the universal true church is full of many godly kind Christians some of whom I may never meet.

While I seek to share with care, respect, and cultural sensitivity, I sometimes wonder if I’ve said things the right way. So, thank you so much for your kind encouragement. You are welcome! I am glad and praise God that you are staying hopeful!

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